Subject
Re: QUERY - In PF,
why doesn't Charles II become King on Alfin's death?
why doesn't Charles II become King on Alfin's death?
From
Date
Body
Hamlet is probably passed over because he's Claudius's son, not King
Hamlet's. At least that's the reading of Harold Bloom and others, and it
does explain a lot.
On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 7:29 PM, Barrie Akin <ba@taxbar.com> wrote:
> Thank you to Victor Fet for the reference to the Petrine rule in Russia
> - and of course we have Hamlet also, who does not succeed to the throne of
> Denmark when old Hamlet dies.
>
> But The point which is really exercising me on this is that Kinbote
> doesn't make any reference that I can see about why he/Charles does not
> succeed to the throne immediately. For someone as pernickety and pedantic
> as Kinbote, this seems to me to be quite an omission, as the norm (even in
> Russia by the time of the revolution) was male primogeniture. And I would
> not expect VN to have overlooked this point, so can only assume that the
> silence is deliberate.
>
>
> Barrie Akin
>
>
> On 10 Apr 2013, at 21:33, "Fet, Victor" <fet@MARSHALL.EDU> wrote:
>
> One does not need a special *Zemblan* law of succession – for instance,
> an old (“Petrine”) *Russian *law would suffice. ****
>
> ** **
>
> There, Peter I “the Great” abolished male-line primogeniture allowing each
> reigning emperor or empress to designate his or her successor.****
>
> ****
>
> Still under this law, Catherine II “the Great” in 1762 succeeded her
> husband Peter III after his murder (which she facilitated), and reigned
> until her death in 1796, only then succeeded by their son Paul I who was
> then 42 years old. (Paul's reign lasted for only five years, until he was
> in his turn assassinated by conspirators.)****
>
> It was Paul who changed this old law of succession to male-line
> primogeniture in 1797, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pauline_Laws****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> Victor Fet****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* Vladimir Nabokov Forum [mailto:NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU<NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU>]
> *On Behalf Of *NABOKV-L, English
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 10, 2013 2:09 PM
> *To:* NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU
> *Subject:* [NABOKV-L] QUERY - In PF, why doesn't Charles II become King
> on Alfin's death?****
>
> ** **
>
> Barrie Akin writes:****
>
> ****
>
> I can't recall seeing anything on this small point of detail - and it may
> of course be insignificant, but...
>
> Charles Xavier is born on July 5 1915.
>
> Alfin the Vague dies in January 1919.
>
> So why doesn't Charles become king at that time, rather than on Blenda's
> death? The text suggests that he does not. For example, see the index
> entries for Blenda and Charles II. Blenda appears to be queen in her own
> right. The only similar situation I can think of is the joint monarchy of
> William III and Mary II of England. On William's death Mary continued as
> queen in her own right, but that was a joint monarchy created in the
> aftermath of the English revolution of 1688.
>
> Unless VN has created a special Zemblan law of succession for PF, you
> would surely expect Charles to have succeeded his father as heir apparent,
> albeit with a regency, on his father's death - the regency presumably
> enduring until Charles came of age.
>
> But there is a reason why there can't have been a regency on Alfin's
> death, as Blenda appears to be Queen in her own right and in any event
> Charles becomes 21 on 5 July 1936, which would terminate the regency -
> assuming that he came of age at 21. There is no mention of any of this in
> PF itself.
>
> This may all be rather footling and of no significance, but if anyone can
> shed light on it, I'd be grateful.****
>
> Google Search the archive<http://www.google.com/advanced_search?q=site:listserv.ucsb.edu&HL=en>
> ****
>
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>
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>
> View NSJ Ada Annotations <http://vnjapan.org/main/ada/index.html>****
>
> Temporary L-Soft Search the archive<https://listserv.ucsb.edu/lsv-cgi-bin/wa?A0=NABOKV-L&X=58B9943B29972AFF64&Y=nabokv-l%40utk.edu>
> ****
>
> All private editorial communications are read by both co-editors. ****
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> ****All private editorial communications are read by both co-editors.
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Hamlet's. At least that's the reading of Harold Bloom and others, and it
does explain a lot.
On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 7:29 PM, Barrie Akin <ba@taxbar.com> wrote:
> Thank you to Victor Fet for the reference to the Petrine rule in Russia
> - and of course we have Hamlet also, who does not succeed to the throne of
> Denmark when old Hamlet dies.
>
> But The point which is really exercising me on this is that Kinbote
> doesn't make any reference that I can see about why he/Charles does not
> succeed to the throne immediately. For someone as pernickety and pedantic
> as Kinbote, this seems to me to be quite an omission, as the norm (even in
> Russia by the time of the revolution) was male primogeniture. And I would
> not expect VN to have overlooked this point, so can only assume that the
> silence is deliberate.
>
>
> Barrie Akin
>
>
> On 10 Apr 2013, at 21:33, "Fet, Victor" <fet@MARSHALL.EDU> wrote:
>
> One does not need a special *Zemblan* law of succession – for instance,
> an old (“Petrine”) *Russian *law would suffice. ****
>
> ** **
>
> There, Peter I “the Great” abolished male-line primogeniture allowing each
> reigning emperor or empress to designate his or her successor.****
>
> ****
>
> Still under this law, Catherine II “the Great” in 1762 succeeded her
> husband Peter III after his murder (which she facilitated), and reigned
> until her death in 1796, only then succeeded by their son Paul I who was
> then 42 years old. (Paul's reign lasted for only five years, until he was
> in his turn assassinated by conspirators.)****
>
> It was Paul who changed this old law of succession to male-line
> primogeniture in 1797, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pauline_Laws****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> Victor Fet****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* Vladimir Nabokov Forum [mailto:NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU<NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU>]
> *On Behalf Of *NABOKV-L, English
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 10, 2013 2:09 PM
> *To:* NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU
> *Subject:* [NABOKV-L] QUERY - In PF, why doesn't Charles II become King
> on Alfin's death?****
>
> ** **
>
> Barrie Akin writes:****
>
> ****
>
> I can't recall seeing anything on this small point of detail - and it may
> of course be insignificant, but...
>
> Charles Xavier is born on July 5 1915.
>
> Alfin the Vague dies in January 1919.
>
> So why doesn't Charles become king at that time, rather than on Blenda's
> death? The text suggests that he does not. For example, see the index
> entries for Blenda and Charles II. Blenda appears to be queen in her own
> right. The only similar situation I can think of is the joint monarchy of
> William III and Mary II of England. On William's death Mary continued as
> queen in her own right, but that was a joint monarchy created in the
> aftermath of the English revolution of 1688.
>
> Unless VN has created a special Zemblan law of succession for PF, you
> would surely expect Charles to have succeeded his father as heir apparent,
> albeit with a regency, on his father's death - the regency presumably
> enduring until Charles came of age.
>
> But there is a reason why there can't have been a regency on Alfin's
> death, as Blenda appears to be Queen in her own right and in any event
> Charles becomes 21 on 5 July 1936, which would terminate the regency -
> assuming that he came of age at 21. There is no mention of any of this in
> PF itself.
>
> This may all be rather footling and of no significance, but if anyone can
> shed light on it, I'd be grateful.****
>
> Google Search the archive<http://www.google.com/advanced_search?q=site:listserv.ucsb.edu&HL=en>
> ****
>
> Contact the Editors <nabokv-l@utk.edu,nabokv-l@holycross.edu>****
>
> Visit "Nabokov Online Journal" <http://www.nabokovonline.com>****
>
> Visit Zembla <http://www.libraries.psu.edu/nabokov/zembla.htm>****
>
> View Nabokv-L Policies <http://web.utk.edu/~sblackwe/EDNote.htm>****
>
> Manage subscription options <http://listserv.ucsb.edu/>****
>
> Visit AdaOnline <http://www.ada.auckland.ac.nz/>****
>
> View NSJ Ada Annotations <http://vnjapan.org/main/ada/index.html>****
>
> Temporary L-Soft Search the archive<https://listserv.ucsb.edu/lsv-cgi-bin/wa?A0=NABOKV-L&X=58B9943B29972AFF64&Y=nabokv-l%40utk.edu>
> ****
>
> All private editorial communications are read by both co-editors. ****
> Google Search the archive<http://www.google.com/advanced_search?q=site:listserv.ucsb.edu&HL=en> Contact
> the Editors <nabokv-l@utk.edu,nabokv-l@holycross.edu> Visit "Nabokov
> Online Journal" <http://www.nabokovonline.com> Visit Zembla<http://www.libraries.psu.edu/nabokov/zembla.htm> View
> Nabokv-L Policies <http://web.utk.edu/~sblackwe/EDNote.htm> Manage
> subscription options <http://listserv.ucsb.edu/> Visit AdaOnline<http://www.ada.auckland.ac.nz/> View
> NSJ Ada Annotations <http://vnjapan.org/main/ada/index.html> Temporary
> L-Soft Search the archive<https://listserv.ucsb.edu/lsv-cgi-bin/wa?A0=NABOKV-L&X=58B9943B29972AFF64&Y=nabokv-l%40utk.edu>
>
> ****All private editorial communications are read by both co-editors.
>
> Google Search the archive<http://www.google.com/advanced_search?q=site:listserv.ucsb.edu&HL=en> Contact
> the Editors <nabokv-l@utk.edu,nabokv-l@holycross.edu> Visit "Nabokov
> Online Journal" <http://www.nabokovonline.com> Visit Zembla<http://www.libraries.psu.edu/nabokov/zembla.htm> View
> Nabokv-L Policies <http://web.utk.edu/~sblackwe/EDNote.htm> Manage
> subscription options <http://listserv.ucsb.edu/> Visit AdaOnline<http://www.ada.auckland.ac.nz/> View
> NSJ Ada Annotations <http://vnjapan.org/main/ada/index.html> Temporary
> L-Soft Search the archive<https://listserv.ucsb.edu/lsv-cgi-bin/wa?A0=NABOKV-L&X=58B9943B29972AFF64&Y=nabokv-l%40utk.edu>
>
> ****All private editorial communications are read by both co-editors.
>
Search archive with Google:
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Contact the Editors: mailto:nabokv-l@utk.edu,nabokv-l@holycross.edu
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