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Fw: Boyd -- more on Nabokov and St Augustine
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Arthur Glass" <goliard@worldnet.att.net>
>
> ---------------- Message requiring your approval (215
lines) ------------------
> Surely VN had enough Latin, given the education he had, to appreciate
> Augustine in the original, perhaps in the Loeb edition, with a beautiful
> English translation by the 17th c. Anglican priest William Watts __en
> face__.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: D. Barton Johnson <chtodel@cox.net>
> To: <NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU>
> Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2002 7:14 PM
> Subject: Boyd -- more on Nabokov and St Augustine
>
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Brian Boyd (FOA ENG)" <b.boyd@auckland.ac.nz>
> > To: "'Vladimir Nabokov Forum'" <NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU>
> > Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2002 3:41 PM
> > Subject: RE: Fw: more on Nabokov and St Augustine for HH
> >
> >
> > > ---------------- Message requiring your approval (148
> > lines) ------------------
> > > But Nabokov DID know and admire St. Augustine, although when he first
> read
> > > him is not clear. The passages below include the explicit allusions I
> > > remember, with the notes I prepared for the Library of America
edition,
> > but
> > > keyed to the first edition/Vintage pagination. Some of the notes
> depended
> > on
> > > the generous help and precise knowledge of James O'Donnell, whom I
> > contacted
> > > through Nabokv-L.
> > >
> > > PALE FIRE,
> > > commentary, p 154:
> > > Line 172:_books and people
> > > In a black pocketbook that I fortunately have with me I find, jotted
> > > down, here and there, among various extracts that had happened to
please
> > me
> > > (a footnote from Boswell's Life of Dr. Johnson, the inscriptions on
the
> > > trees in Wordsmith's famous avenue, a quotation from St. Augustine,
and
> so
> > > on), a few samples of John Shade's conversation which I had collected
in
> > > order to refer to them in the presence of people whom my friendship
with
> > the
> > > poet might interest or annoy.
> > >
> > > PALE FIRE, commentary to line 549, p 227,
> > > I too, I too, my dear John, have been assailed in my time by religious
> > > doubts. The church helped me to fight them off. It also helped me not
to
> > ask
> > > too much, not to demand too clear an image of what is unimaginable.
St.
> > > Augustine said--
> > > SHADE: Why must one always quote St. Augustine to me?
> > > KINBOTE: As St. Augustine said, "One can know what God is not; one
> > > cannot know what He is." I think I know what He is not: He is not
> despair,
> > > He is not terror, He is not the earth in one's rattling throat, not
the
> > > black hum in one's ears fading to nothing in nothing.
> > >
> > > BB: 227.14-15 As St. Augustine said, "One can know what God is not;
one
> > > cannot know what He is"] Since the limitations of human knowledge of
> > > God is one of St. Augustine's great themes, a number of quotations
could
> > fit
> > > the bill: Enarrationes in Psalmos (391-430 AD), 85.12: "Deus
ineffabilis
> > > est; facilius dicimus quid non sit, quam quid sit" ("God is ineffable;
> we
> > > more easily say what he is not, than what He is"); De ordine (386),
> > 2.16.44:
> > > "de summo illo deo, qui scitur melius nesciendo" ("of that high God,
who
> > is
> > > known best by not knowing"); Sermones (391-430), 117.3.5: "si enim
> > > comprehendis, non est Deus" ("If you understand, it is not God"
> > (Patrologiae
> > > Latinae, 37:1090, 32:105, 38:663).
> > >
> > >
> > > ADA 537 (Part 4):
> > > And Aurelius Augustinus, too, he, too, in his tussles with the same
> theme,
> > > fifteen hundred years ago, experienced this oddly physical torment of
> the
> > > shallowing mind, the shchekotiki (tickles) of approximation, the
> evasions
> > of
> > > cerebral exhaustion--but he, at least, could replenish his brain with
> > > God-dispensed energy (have a footnote here about how delightful it is
to
> > > watch him pressing on and interspersing his cogitations, between sands
> and
> > > stars, with vigorous little fits of prayer).
> > >
> > > BB: 537.24-31 Aurelius Augustinus . . . prayer]
> > > St. Augustine's famous discussion of time, Confessions, Bk. 11.
> > >
> > >
> > > ADA 541:
> > > But beware, anime meus, of the marcel wave of fashionable art
> > >
> > > BB: 541.03 beware, anime meus]
> > > See Darkbloom ["Lat., soul"]; in imitation of Augustine's addresses
> > > to "my soul."
> > >
> > > ADA 544:
> > > Such a drought affected Hippo in the most productive months of
> > > Augustine's bishopric that clepsydras had to be replaced by
sandglasses.
> > He
> > > defined the Past as what is no longer and the future as what is not
yet
> > > (actually the future is a fantasm belonging to another category of
> thought
> > > essentially different from that of the Past which, at least, was here
a
> > > moment ago--where did I put it? Pocket? But the search itself is
already
> > > "past").
> > >
> > > BB: 544.07 Hippo]
> > > St. Augustine was Bishop of Hippo from 396 to 430.
> > > BB: 544.09-10 defined the Past as what is no longer and the future as
> what
> > > is not yet] Confessions, Bk. 11, 14: "duo ergo illa tempora,
praeteritum
> > > et futurum, quomodo sunt, quando et praeteritum iam non est et futurum
> > > nondum est?" ("There are therefore two times, the past and the future,
> but
> > > in what sense, when the past no longer is and the future is not yet?")
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: D. Barton Johnson [mailto:chtodel@cox.net]
> > > Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2002 4:40 AM
> > > To: NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU
> > > Subject: Fw: Fw: more on Nabokov and St Augustine for HH
> > >
> > >
> > > EDITOR'S NOTE. The suggested link between VN & St. Augustine is
> intriguing
> > > but, pending evidence to the contrary, implausible. It doesn't seem
> likely
> > > that VN (from an Russian orthodox tradition and Cambridge education)
> would
> > > have read Augustine. Even if so, it would more likely surfaced in his
> > later
> > > autobiography than in MARY. John Burt Foster's book on VN and European
> > > Modernism finds the presence of Nietzsche which seems a better based
> > > assumption although some have questioned this.
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Hanny Hindi" <hanny@ccat.sas.upenn.edu>
> > > To: <NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU>doesn't
> > > Sent: Friday, September 13, 2002 10:26 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Fw: more on St Augustine for HH
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > ----------------- Message requiring your approval (42
> > > lines) ------------------
> > > > > > St Augustine was the first saint to have a home page on the
> > Internet.
> > > It
> > > > > is
> > > > > > maintained by James O'Donnell, University of Pennsylvania. Do a
> > search
> > > for
> > > > > > "Augustine of Hippo" and "Home Page" and it should come right
up.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Carolyn Kunin
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Very funny that you should mention that. I just graduated from Penn
> in
> > > > May and James O'Donnell (as of this past July, Provost of
Georgetown)
> > was
> > > > a wonderful mentor and friend with whom I am still in constant
> contact.
> > > >
> > > > I ask the question because I think that _Mary_ is more than an
> > apprentice
> > > > piece and believe that one of the clues to the novel lies in its
> > > > coordination of different forms of imagination (fancy, memory, and
> > > > "fore-fancy") and would like to know if the phrase "dispersion of
the
> > > > will" is leading us to Augustine's conception of the relationship
> > between
> > > > time and imagination as he articulates it in Book XI of the
> > _Confessions_.
> > > > "Distentio Animi" refers to the condition of being occupied with
> > memories,
> > > > sensory experiences and expectations at the same moment, as opposed
to
> > > > the ideal condition of directing our "undivided attention" (a
> > particularly
> > > > apt phrase in this context) toward God.
> > > >
> > > > In _Mary_, Ganin, while recuperating from typhus, imagines a girl
whom
> > he
> > > > would like to meet (fancy) and is lucky enough to find one who fits
> his
> > > > conception (and solipsistic enough to abandon her the moment she
> > violates
> > > > his aesthetic). In Germany, nine years later, he remembers his time
> > with
> > > > _Mary_ in vivid visual detail (another form of imagination). Where
> he,
> > > > and Alfyorov, fail is in their inability to project forward and
> > > > imagine a changed _Mary_
> > > > after a number of years (fore-fancy). They both insist that "she
must
> > not
> > > > have changed a bit."
> > > >
> > > > Could the phrase "dispersion of the will" be a translation of
> > Augustine's
> > > > "distentio animi" and a clue to pay closer attention to "memoria"
and
> > > > "expectatio" in _Mary_? I speak no Russian, and do not know which
> > > > editions or translations of the _Confessions_ VN would have used,
but
> > hope
> > > > that someone might be able to point me in the right direction.
> > > >
> > > > Best,
> > > >
> > > > hh
> > > >
>
>
From: "Arthur Glass" <goliard@worldnet.att.net>
>
> ---------------- Message requiring your approval (215
lines) ------------------
> Surely VN had enough Latin, given the education he had, to appreciate
> Augustine in the original, perhaps in the Loeb edition, with a beautiful
> English translation by the 17th c. Anglican priest William Watts __en
> face__.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: D. Barton Johnson <chtodel@cox.net>
> To: <NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU>
> Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2002 7:14 PM
> Subject: Boyd -- more on Nabokov and St Augustine
>
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Brian Boyd (FOA ENG)" <b.boyd@auckland.ac.nz>
> > To: "'Vladimir Nabokov Forum'" <NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU>
> > Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2002 3:41 PM
> > Subject: RE: Fw: more on Nabokov and St Augustine for HH
> >
> >
> > > ---------------- Message requiring your approval (148
> > lines) ------------------
> > > But Nabokov DID know and admire St. Augustine, although when he first
> read
> > > him is not clear. The passages below include the explicit allusions I
> > > remember, with the notes I prepared for the Library of America
edition,
> > but
> > > keyed to the first edition/Vintage pagination. Some of the notes
> depended
> > on
> > > the generous help and precise knowledge of James O'Donnell, whom I
> > contacted
> > > through Nabokv-L.
> > >
> > > PALE FIRE,
> > > commentary, p 154:
> > > Line 172:_books and people
> > > In a black pocketbook that I fortunately have with me I find, jotted
> > > down, here and there, among various extracts that had happened to
please
> > me
> > > (a footnote from Boswell's Life of Dr. Johnson, the inscriptions on
the
> > > trees in Wordsmith's famous avenue, a quotation from St. Augustine,
and
> so
> > > on), a few samples of John Shade's conversation which I had collected
in
> > > order to refer to them in the presence of people whom my friendship
with
> > the
> > > poet might interest or annoy.
> > >
> > > PALE FIRE, commentary to line 549, p 227,
> > > I too, I too, my dear John, have been assailed in my time by religious
> > > doubts. The church helped me to fight them off. It also helped me not
to
> > ask
> > > too much, not to demand too clear an image of what is unimaginable.
St.
> > > Augustine said--
> > > SHADE: Why must one always quote St. Augustine to me?
> > > KINBOTE: As St. Augustine said, "One can know what God is not; one
> > > cannot know what He is." I think I know what He is not: He is not
> despair,
> > > He is not terror, He is not the earth in one's rattling throat, not
the
> > > black hum in one's ears fading to nothing in nothing.
> > >
> > > BB: 227.14-15 As St. Augustine said, "One can know what God is not;
one
> > > cannot know what He is"] Since the limitations of human knowledge of
> > > God is one of St. Augustine's great themes, a number of quotations
could
> > fit
> > > the bill: Enarrationes in Psalmos (391-430 AD), 85.12: "Deus
ineffabilis
> > > est; facilius dicimus quid non sit, quam quid sit" ("God is ineffable;
> we
> > > more easily say what he is not, than what He is"); De ordine (386),
> > 2.16.44:
> > > "de summo illo deo, qui scitur melius nesciendo" ("of that high God,
who
> > is
> > > known best by not knowing"); Sermones (391-430), 117.3.5: "si enim
> > > comprehendis, non est Deus" ("If you understand, it is not God"
> > (Patrologiae
> > > Latinae, 37:1090, 32:105, 38:663).
> > >
> > >
> > > ADA 537 (Part 4):
> > > And Aurelius Augustinus, too, he, too, in his tussles with the same
> theme,
> > > fifteen hundred years ago, experienced this oddly physical torment of
> the
> > > shallowing mind, the shchekotiki (tickles) of approximation, the
> evasions
> > of
> > > cerebral exhaustion--but he, at least, could replenish his brain with
> > > God-dispensed energy (have a footnote here about how delightful it is
to
> > > watch him pressing on and interspersing his cogitations, between sands
> and
> > > stars, with vigorous little fits of prayer).
> > >
> > > BB: 537.24-31 Aurelius Augustinus . . . prayer]
> > > St. Augustine's famous discussion of time, Confessions, Bk. 11.
> > >
> > >
> > > ADA 541:
> > > But beware, anime meus, of the marcel wave of fashionable art
> > >
> > > BB: 541.03 beware, anime meus]
> > > See Darkbloom ["Lat., soul"]; in imitation of Augustine's addresses
> > > to "my soul."
> > >
> > > ADA 544:
> > > Such a drought affected Hippo in the most productive months of
> > > Augustine's bishopric that clepsydras had to be replaced by
sandglasses.
> > He
> > > defined the Past as what is no longer and the future as what is not
yet
> > > (actually the future is a fantasm belonging to another category of
> thought
> > > essentially different from that of the Past which, at least, was here
a
> > > moment ago--where did I put it? Pocket? But the search itself is
already
> > > "past").
> > >
> > > BB: 544.07 Hippo]
> > > St. Augustine was Bishop of Hippo from 396 to 430.
> > > BB: 544.09-10 defined the Past as what is no longer and the future as
> what
> > > is not yet] Confessions, Bk. 11, 14: "duo ergo illa tempora,
praeteritum
> > > et futurum, quomodo sunt, quando et praeteritum iam non est et futurum
> > > nondum est?" ("There are therefore two times, the past and the future,
> but
> > > in what sense, when the past no longer is and the future is not yet?")
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: D. Barton Johnson [mailto:chtodel@cox.net]
> > > Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2002 4:40 AM
> > > To: NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU
> > > Subject: Fw: Fw: more on Nabokov and St Augustine for HH
> > >
> > >
> > > EDITOR'S NOTE. The suggested link between VN & St. Augustine is
> intriguing
> > > but, pending evidence to the contrary, implausible. It doesn't seem
> likely
> > > that VN (from an Russian orthodox tradition and Cambridge education)
> would
> > > have read Augustine. Even if so, it would more likely surfaced in his
> > later
> > > autobiography than in MARY. John Burt Foster's book on VN and European
> > > Modernism finds the presence of Nietzsche which seems a better based
> > > assumption although some have questioned this.
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Hanny Hindi" <hanny@ccat.sas.upenn.edu>
> > > To: <NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU>doesn't
> > > Sent: Friday, September 13, 2002 10:26 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Fw: more on St Augustine for HH
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > ----------------- Message requiring your approval (42
> > > lines) ------------------
> > > > > > St Augustine was the first saint to have a home page on the
> > Internet.
> > > It
> > > > > is
> > > > > > maintained by James O'Donnell, University of Pennsylvania. Do a
> > search
> > > for
> > > > > > "Augustine of Hippo" and "Home Page" and it should come right
up.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Carolyn Kunin
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Very funny that you should mention that. I just graduated from Penn
> in
> > > > May and James O'Donnell (as of this past July, Provost of
Georgetown)
> > was
> > > > a wonderful mentor and friend with whom I am still in constant
> contact.
> > > >
> > > > I ask the question because I think that _Mary_ is more than an
> > apprentice
> > > > piece and believe that one of the clues to the novel lies in its
> > > > coordination of different forms of imagination (fancy, memory, and
> > > > "fore-fancy") and would like to know if the phrase "dispersion of
the
> > > > will" is leading us to Augustine's conception of the relationship
> > between
> > > > time and imagination as he articulates it in Book XI of the
> > _Confessions_.
> > > > "Distentio Animi" refers to the condition of being occupied with
> > memories,
> > > > sensory experiences and expectations at the same moment, as opposed
to
> > > > the ideal condition of directing our "undivided attention" (a
> > particularly
> > > > apt phrase in this context) toward God.
> > > >
> > > > In _Mary_, Ganin, while recuperating from typhus, imagines a girl
whom
> > he
> > > > would like to meet (fancy) and is lucky enough to find one who fits
> his
> > > > conception (and solipsistic enough to abandon her the moment she
> > violates
> > > > his aesthetic). In Germany, nine years later, he remembers his time
> > with
> > > > _Mary_ in vivid visual detail (another form of imagination). Where
> he,
> > > > and Alfyorov, fail is in their inability to project forward and
> > > > imagine a changed _Mary_
> > > > after a number of years (fore-fancy). They both insist that "she
must
> > not
> > > > have changed a bit."
> > > >
> > > > Could the phrase "dispersion of the will" be a translation of
> > Augustine's
> > > > "distentio animi" and a clue to pay closer attention to "memoria"
and
> > > > "expectatio" in _Mary_? I speak no Russian, and do not know which
> > > > editions or translations of the _Confessions_ VN would have used,
but
> > hope
> > > > that someone might be able to point me in the right direction.
> > > >
> > > > Best,
> > > >
> > > > hh
> > > >
>
>