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Fw: pynchon-l-digest V2 #3584 Pale Fire
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----- Original Message -----
From: "pynchon-l-digest" <owner-pynchon-l-digest@waste.org>
To: <pynchon-l-digest@waste.org>
Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 12:00 AM
Subject: pynchon-l-digest V2 #3584
>
> pynchon-l-digest Friday, October 3 2003 Volume 02 : Number
3584
> RE: NPPF commentary line 149, p. 143- continued
>
> Re: NPPF commentary line 149, p. 143- continued
> Re: NPPF commentary line 149, p. 143- continued
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 16:57:34 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Michael Joseph <mjoseph@rci.rutgers.edu>
> Subject: RE: NPPF commentary line 149, p. 143- continued
>
> On Thu, 2 Oct 2003, Ghetta Life wrote:
>
> >
> > Wow! Some of Michael's commentary on the Commentary is as surreal as
> > Kinbote's. I'll just skip around to a few points:
> >
> > >"... after a while he stopped again to take stock of conditions and
decide
> > >whether to scramble up the steep debris slope in front of him or to
strike
> > >off to the right along a strip of grass, gay with gentians, that went
> > >winding between lichened rocks." (143) The choice seems as clear as,
say,
> > >the choice between sex and death, and yet it takes Charles--a king,
whose
> > >royal function is to choose--a second or two to choose.
> >
> > You are playing with a Freudian take on a novel by an author who's
professed
> > disdain for Freud. Of course, still, even Nabokov can pe
psychoanalized..
> >
> I wasn't aware that I was actually being Freudian, but, you are right.
> Anyone can be pyschoanalized, because psychological realities are real
> whether one chooses to recognize them or not. They have a kind of vitality
> of their own--like religious realities or ideological realities. Being
> disposed to it, a reader can see their abstract patterns beneath the horny
> surface of the narrative. Pale Fire is obviously interested in ways these
> patterns out themselves, reveal themselves. The miracle of the lemniscate
> is conveyed by the idea these patterns occur automatically, as a kind of
> perpetuum mobile, without authorial intervention.
>
>
> > >Oddly, Charles's perceptions (which are consubstantial with Kinbote's)
> > >embrace imagery of violently forced sexual abstinence.
> > >
> > >"Falkberg with its hood of snow" (144) suggests a penis covered by a
> > >leperous foreskin (rather than a hardon with a ruddy head or an
> > >upright leader with a crown)
> >
> > Please! I've just finished my lunch! But really, I can't see this
> > "suggestion."
> >
> Who knew you were eating? Sorry.
>
> > >"Paberg (Mt. Peacock), and others,--separated by narrow dim valleys
with
> > >intercalated cotton-wool bits of cloud that seemed placed ... to
prevent
> > >their flanks from scraping against one another" (144) suggests a kind
of
> > >sexual restraint inhibiting consenting thighs.
> > >
> > >"Mt. Glitterntin a serrated edge of bright foil" (144) suggests a
menacing
> > >gelding knife.
> > >
> > >"a tender haze enveloped more distant ridges" (144) suggests the
painful,
> > >fading memory of one's one-time ridged (manly) self.
> > >
> > >".. an endless array, through every grade of soft evanescence" (144)
> > >suggests disintegration, though perhaps ecstatic disintegration: a
rainbow
> > >of indistinctiveness; the full monty of death.
> >
> > Or maybe detumescence, yeah, I think I'm getting it...
> >
> > Crazy, but sort of fun...
> >
> Sort of sends us back to Hamlet ...
>
> Michael
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 20:28:54 -0700
> From: "Keith McMullen, PhD" <keithsz@concentric.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF commentary line 149, p. 143- continued
>
> >>>Anyone can be pyschoanalized, because psychological realities are real
> whether one chooses to recognize them or not. <<<
>
> WOW! A discussion of this assertion could get us going for
> a while.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 23:42:04 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Michael Joseph <mjoseph@rci.rutgers.edu>
> Subject: Re: NPPF commentary line 149, p. 143- continued
>
> On Thu, 2 Oct 2003, Keith McMullen, PhD wrote:
>
> > >>>Anyone can be pyschoanalized, because psychological realities are
real
> > whether one chooses to recognize them or not. <<<
> >
> > WOW! A discussion of this assertion could get us going for
> > a while.
> >
> well, the night is young
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of pynchon-l-digest V2 #3584
> ********************************
>
From: "pynchon-l-digest" <owner-pynchon-l-digest@waste.org>
To: <pynchon-l-digest@waste.org>
Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 12:00 AM
Subject: pynchon-l-digest V2 #3584
>
> pynchon-l-digest Friday, October 3 2003 Volume 02 : Number
3584
> RE: NPPF commentary line 149, p. 143- continued
>
> Re: NPPF commentary line 149, p. 143- continued
> Re: NPPF commentary line 149, p. 143- continued
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 16:57:34 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Michael Joseph <mjoseph@rci.rutgers.edu>
> Subject: RE: NPPF commentary line 149, p. 143- continued
>
> On Thu, 2 Oct 2003, Ghetta Life wrote:
>
> >
> > Wow! Some of Michael's commentary on the Commentary is as surreal as
> > Kinbote's. I'll just skip around to a few points:
> >
> > >"... after a while he stopped again to take stock of conditions and
decide
> > >whether to scramble up the steep debris slope in front of him or to
strike
> > >off to the right along a strip of grass, gay with gentians, that went
> > >winding between lichened rocks." (143) The choice seems as clear as,
say,
> > >the choice between sex and death, and yet it takes Charles--a king,
whose
> > >royal function is to choose--a second or two to choose.
> >
> > You are playing with a Freudian take on a novel by an author who's
professed
> > disdain for Freud. Of course, still, even Nabokov can pe
psychoanalized..
> >
> I wasn't aware that I was actually being Freudian, but, you are right.
> Anyone can be pyschoanalized, because psychological realities are real
> whether one chooses to recognize them or not. They have a kind of vitality
> of their own--like religious realities or ideological realities. Being
> disposed to it, a reader can see their abstract patterns beneath the horny
> surface of the narrative. Pale Fire is obviously interested in ways these
> patterns out themselves, reveal themselves. The miracle of the lemniscate
> is conveyed by the idea these patterns occur automatically, as a kind of
> perpetuum mobile, without authorial intervention.
>
>
> > >Oddly, Charles's perceptions (which are consubstantial with Kinbote's)
> > >embrace imagery of violently forced sexual abstinence.
> > >
> > >"Falkberg with its hood of snow" (144) suggests a penis covered by a
> > >leperous foreskin (rather than a hardon with a ruddy head or an
> > >upright leader with a crown)
> >
> > Please! I've just finished my lunch! But really, I can't see this
> > "suggestion."
> >
> Who knew you were eating? Sorry.
>
> > >"Paberg (Mt. Peacock), and others,--separated by narrow dim valleys
with
> > >intercalated cotton-wool bits of cloud that seemed placed ... to
prevent
> > >their flanks from scraping against one another" (144) suggests a kind
of
> > >sexual restraint inhibiting consenting thighs.
> > >
> > >"Mt. Glitterntin a serrated edge of bright foil" (144) suggests a
menacing
> > >gelding knife.
> > >
> > >"a tender haze enveloped more distant ridges" (144) suggests the
painful,
> > >fading memory of one's one-time ridged (manly) self.
> > >
> > >".. an endless array, through every grade of soft evanescence" (144)
> > >suggests disintegration, though perhaps ecstatic disintegration: a
rainbow
> > >of indistinctiveness; the full monty of death.
> >
> > Or maybe detumescence, yeah, I think I'm getting it...
> >
> > Crazy, but sort of fun...
> >
> Sort of sends us back to Hamlet ...
>
> Michael
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 20:28:54 -0700
> From: "Keith McMullen, PhD" <keithsz@concentric.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF commentary line 149, p. 143- continued
>
> >>>Anyone can be pyschoanalized, because psychological realities are real
> whether one chooses to recognize them or not. <<<
>
> WOW! A discussion of this assertion could get us going for
> a while.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 23:42:04 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Michael Joseph <mjoseph@rci.rutgers.edu>
> Subject: Re: NPPF commentary line 149, p. 143- continued
>
> On Thu, 2 Oct 2003, Keith McMullen, PhD wrote:
>
> > >>>Anyone can be pyschoanalized, because psychological realities are
real
> > whether one chooses to recognize them or not. <<<
> >
> > WOW! A discussion of this assertion could get us going for
> > a while.
> >
> well, the night is young
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of pynchon-l-digest V2 #3584
> ********************************
>