Subject
Fw: pynchon-l-digest V2 #3573
From
Date
Body
----- Original Message -----
From: "pynchon-l-digest" <owner-pynchon-l-digest@waste.org>
To: <pynchon-l-digest@waste.org>
Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2003 12:36 PM
Subject: pynchon-l-digest V2 #3573
>
>
> Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 14:46:55 +0300
> From: "Tsianides Costas" <tsianides@cytanet.com.cy>
> Subject: Re: NPPF Still curious
>
> - ----- Original Message -----
> From: sZ <keithsz@concentric.net>
> To: <pynchon-l@waste.org>
> Sent: Friday, September 26, 2003 10:04 PM
> Subject: NPPF Still curious
>
>
> > By the way, what does 'cloutish' mean? One of the definitions of
> > 'clout' is a powerful baseball hit, so it's an intriguing descriptor for
> > Shade. I just realized I had been reading it as 'loutish.'
> >
> In archery, clout is the TARGET
>
> costas
>
--
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 11:40:29 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Michael Joseph <mjoseph@rci.rutgers.edu>
> Subject: RE: NPPR Line 143 a clockwork toy
>
> On Fri, 26 Sep 2003, Glenn Scheper wrote:
>
> > Please, How is a candle(stick) related to broken time symbolism?
> >
> thanks for illuminating help on candlestick. Also trad symbol of one's
> life in time (burning one's candle at both ends = hastening the end of
> one's life); life like a flame on a candle (nursery rhyme, for example,
> "here comes a candle to light you to bed/Here comes a chopper to chop off
> your head;" perhaps Jack jumping over the candlestick is another image of
> the atemporal, the flame jumping off the wick, as, for example, at the end
> of Katzenzakis's ODYSSEY: A MODERN SEQUEL; and famous line from Othello
> "put out the light and then put out the light" or, alternately, "put out
> the light and then put out her light"); yahrzeit candles, and other
> memorial candles, symbolize time beyond time or atemporal time, in illo
> tempore.
>
>
> Michael
>
>
>
> > > Shade and Kinbote's sojourn constitutes an escape from time:
> > > the candle, handless clock, broken clockwork toy, are all broken
> > > symbols of time, or symbols of broken or stopped time.
> >
> > C. line 143 says candle-stick, a hyphen at line end in my copy.
> >
> > Solving candlestick is half the key of a mystery in Revelation:
> >
> > 1:19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which
> > are, and the things which shall be hereafter;
> >
> > 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right
> > hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are
> > the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks
> > which thou sawest are the seven churches.
> >
> > Is a candlestick the candle itself or the candle's receptacle?
> > Websters: Candlestick: a cupped or spiked holder for a candle.
> >
> > Funny, I opened my oldest reference, Harper's Bible Dictionary,
> > wherein the entry Candlestick said, See Lampstand. These past
> > 20 years I've been trying to see the symbolic importance of a
> > thing that supports an oil lamp, which in my mental image had
> > deteriorated by now to approximately a bedside night-stand.
> >
> > But now I find the Candlestick of Rev. is Greek LYCHNOS, which
> > I can now properly map to Lamp, which discussion indicates no
> > candle at all, but for that age, a vessel with oil and a wick.
> >
> > Which might VN mean by candlestick?
> >
> > From my AF perspective, Aladdin's lamp is Aladdin himself.
> > The djinn comes out of a bottle which is himself. Rather,
> > he is intertwined with the bottle, like the vase my wife
> > bought, that has a serpent passing through cracks in it.
> > Depending what end's what, putting a lamp under a bushel
> > resembles coitus, but the lamp on a lampstand his mouth.
> >
> > Yours truly,
> > Glenn Scheper
> > http://home.earthlink.net/~glenn_scheper/
> > glenn_scheper + at + earthlink.net
> > Copyleft(!) Forward freely.
> >
> >
>
From: "pynchon-l-digest" <owner-pynchon-l-digest@waste.org>
To: <pynchon-l-digest@waste.org>
Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2003 12:36 PM
Subject: pynchon-l-digest V2 #3573
>
>
> Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 14:46:55 +0300
> From: "Tsianides Costas" <tsianides@cytanet.com.cy>
> Subject: Re: NPPF Still curious
>
> - ----- Original Message -----
> From: sZ <keithsz@concentric.net>
> To: <pynchon-l@waste.org>
> Sent: Friday, September 26, 2003 10:04 PM
> Subject: NPPF Still curious
>
>
> > By the way, what does 'cloutish' mean? One of the definitions of
> > 'clout' is a powerful baseball hit, so it's an intriguing descriptor for
> > Shade. I just realized I had been reading it as 'loutish.'
> >
> In archery, clout is the TARGET
>
> costas
>
--
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 11:40:29 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Michael Joseph <mjoseph@rci.rutgers.edu>
> Subject: RE: NPPR Line 143 a clockwork toy
>
> On Fri, 26 Sep 2003, Glenn Scheper wrote:
>
> > Please, How is a candle(stick) related to broken time symbolism?
> >
> thanks for illuminating help on candlestick. Also trad symbol of one's
> life in time (burning one's candle at both ends = hastening the end of
> one's life); life like a flame on a candle (nursery rhyme, for example,
> "here comes a candle to light you to bed/Here comes a chopper to chop off
> your head;" perhaps Jack jumping over the candlestick is another image of
> the atemporal, the flame jumping off the wick, as, for example, at the end
> of Katzenzakis's ODYSSEY: A MODERN SEQUEL; and famous line from Othello
> "put out the light and then put out the light" or, alternately, "put out
> the light and then put out her light"); yahrzeit candles, and other
> memorial candles, symbolize time beyond time or atemporal time, in illo
> tempore.
>
>
> Michael
>
>
>
> > > Shade and Kinbote's sojourn constitutes an escape from time:
> > > the candle, handless clock, broken clockwork toy, are all broken
> > > symbols of time, or symbols of broken or stopped time.
> >
> > C. line 143 says candle-stick, a hyphen at line end in my copy.
> >
> > Solving candlestick is half the key of a mystery in Revelation:
> >
> > 1:19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which
> > are, and the things which shall be hereafter;
> >
> > 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right
> > hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are
> > the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks
> > which thou sawest are the seven churches.
> >
> > Is a candlestick the candle itself or the candle's receptacle?
> > Websters: Candlestick: a cupped or spiked holder for a candle.
> >
> > Funny, I opened my oldest reference, Harper's Bible Dictionary,
> > wherein the entry Candlestick said, See Lampstand. These past
> > 20 years I've been trying to see the symbolic importance of a
> > thing that supports an oil lamp, which in my mental image had
> > deteriorated by now to approximately a bedside night-stand.
> >
> > But now I find the Candlestick of Rev. is Greek LYCHNOS, which
> > I can now properly map to Lamp, which discussion indicates no
> > candle at all, but for that age, a vessel with oil and a wick.
> >
> > Which might VN mean by candlestick?
> >
> > From my AF perspective, Aladdin's lamp is Aladdin himself.
> > The djinn comes out of a bottle which is himself. Rather,
> > he is intertwined with the bottle, like the vase my wife
> > bought, that has a serpent passing through cracks in it.
> > Depending what end's what, putting a lamp under a bushel
> > resembles coitus, but the lamp on a lampstand his mouth.
> >
> > Yours truly,
> > Glenn Scheper
> > http://home.earthlink.net/~glenn_scheper/
> > glenn_scheper + at + earthlink.net
> > Copyleft(!) Forward freely.
> >
> >
>