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Fw: pynchon-l-digest V2 #3395 PALE FIRE
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From: "pynchon-l-digest" <owner-pynchon-l-digest@waste.org>
To: <pynchon-l-digest@waste.org>
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 9:30 PM
Subject: pynchon-l-digest V2 #3395
>
> pynchon-l-digest Friday, July 11 2003 Volume 02 : Number
3395
>
>
>
> Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 21:01:47 -0400
> From: "Don Corathers" <gumbo@fuse.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF: Epigraph (not the pissing contest)
>
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
> - ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01C347EF.A40431C0
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="UTF-8"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> MalignD wrote:
>
> It's possible, of course (even likely), that VN intended this sort of =
> unknowing. [and more]
>
>
> Sure. The ambiguity is delicious, wonderfully intriguing and appealing =
> (until it becomes a frustrating tease, which hasn't happened to me yet). =
> It fills the room like a sweet but unidentifiable scent every time you =
> open the book. And yes, it's certainly one of the things Pale Fire =
> shares with V., Lot 49, and GR.=20
>
> With that said, my need for order compels me to make one additional =
> observation about David Roach's comment on the epigraph. He left open =
> the possibility that Shade might have selected it, if Nabokov didn't. =
> (Or rather, if Nabokov assigned the duty to one of his characters, =
> instead of speaking directly to the reader through the epigraph. It =
> seems likely that he at least wanted us to wonder about it.) That darn =
> cat is a problem, though. By the time he knew that Hodge the cat had =
> been spared, Shade was on his way back to the white fountain (or was it =
> mountain?), and in no condition to go thumbing through his Life of =
> Samuel Johnson.
>
> Don Corathers =20
>
>
>
>
> Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 21:22:10 -0400
> From: "Don Corathers" <gumbo@fuse.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF: Preliminary: The Epigraph
>
> All part of Kinbote's delusion. I don't think he should be held
responsible
> for inconsistency. If he's crazy enough to believe that a major poet is
> going to write The Zemblaiad, why is it a stretch to accept that he
believes
> he's serving Shade's legacy? One of the weird sympathies I have for
Kinbote
> is that he seems so desperately sincere, even (or especially) when he's at
> his most delusional.
>
> Don Corathers
>
>
> jbor wrote:
>
> > At many other moments, however, Kinbote details how he continually and
> > deliberately hinted to Shade to compose the poem about his own alterego,
> > Charles the Beloved, and in the final piece of commentary to the missing
> > Line 1000 he admits his expectation that the poem would be a "kind of
> > *romaunt* about the King of Zembla", about how disappointed he was to
find
> > it at first merely an "autobiographical, eminently Appalachian, rather
> > old-fashioned narrative in a neo-Popian prosodic style", and then how,
on
> > rereading the poem he did perceive the "dim distant music, those
vestiges
> of
> > color in the air" which confirms his original solipsism and generates
much
> > of the substance of his commentary.
> >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
> >
> > Casting Shade as Kinbote's Boswell (or panegyrist): this is an
interesting
> > dimension to Kinbote, the mirror of the commentator dutifully gathering
> and
> > reporting information on his subject; Kinbote wants to gather and report
> his
> > own information as well, and hang it in Shade's mirror. He sees his
role
> as
> > collaborative rather than merely responsive. This all goes to the idea
of
> > synthesis: of poem and commentary into an atomic text. But it also
serves
> a
> > larger process in PF, the act of creating connections and meaning from
the
> > discovered world. As Shade creates meaning through the writing of the
> poem
> > -- a process that structures the entire commentary (to the extent that
> > Kinbote allows it) -- by taking parts of his world and his memory and
> > putting them into verse, so too Kinbote creates meaning for himself by
> > supplying Shade and the hypothetical reader with his own world and
> memories.
> > Zembla too is created as the novel moves along, again for both Shade and
> > reader. John Shade is for Kinbote one more discovered aspect of the
world
> > that can be used in order to create meaning.
> >
> [more]
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
>
> End of pynchon-l-digest V2 #3395
> ********************************
>
> To unsubscribe, send a message to waste@waste.org
> with "unsubscribe pynchon-l-digest" in the message body.
From: "pynchon-l-digest" <owner-pynchon-l-digest@waste.org>
To: <pynchon-l-digest@waste.org>
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 9:30 PM
Subject: pynchon-l-digest V2 #3395
>
> pynchon-l-digest Friday, July 11 2003 Volume 02 : Number
3395
>
>
>
> Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 21:01:47 -0400
> From: "Don Corathers" <gumbo@fuse.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF: Epigraph (not the pissing contest)
>
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
> - ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01C347EF.A40431C0
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="UTF-8"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> MalignD wrote:
>
> It's possible, of course (even likely), that VN intended this sort of =
> unknowing. [and more]
>
>
> Sure. The ambiguity is delicious, wonderfully intriguing and appealing =
> (until it becomes a frustrating tease, which hasn't happened to me yet). =
> It fills the room like a sweet but unidentifiable scent every time you =
> open the book. And yes, it's certainly one of the things Pale Fire =
> shares with V., Lot 49, and GR.=20
>
> With that said, my need for order compels me to make one additional =
> observation about David Roach's comment on the epigraph. He left open =
> the possibility that Shade might have selected it, if Nabokov didn't. =
> (Or rather, if Nabokov assigned the duty to one of his characters, =
> instead of speaking directly to the reader through the epigraph. It =
> seems likely that he at least wanted us to wonder about it.) That darn =
> cat is a problem, though. By the time he knew that Hodge the cat had =
> been spared, Shade was on his way back to the white fountain (or was it =
> mountain?), and in no condition to go thumbing through his Life of =
> Samuel Johnson.
>
> Don Corathers =20
>
>
>
>
> Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 21:22:10 -0400
> From: "Don Corathers" <gumbo@fuse.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF: Preliminary: The Epigraph
>
> All part of Kinbote's delusion. I don't think he should be held
responsible
> for inconsistency. If he's crazy enough to believe that a major poet is
> going to write The Zemblaiad, why is it a stretch to accept that he
believes
> he's serving Shade's legacy? One of the weird sympathies I have for
Kinbote
> is that he seems so desperately sincere, even (or especially) when he's at
> his most delusional.
>
> Don Corathers
>
>
> jbor wrote:
>
> > At many other moments, however, Kinbote details how he continually and
> > deliberately hinted to Shade to compose the poem about his own alterego,
> > Charles the Beloved, and in the final piece of commentary to the missing
> > Line 1000 he admits his expectation that the poem would be a "kind of
> > *romaunt* about the King of Zembla", about how disappointed he was to
find
> > it at first merely an "autobiographical, eminently Appalachian, rather
> > old-fashioned narrative in a neo-Popian prosodic style", and then how,
on
> > rereading the poem he did perceive the "dim distant music, those
vestiges
> of
> > color in the air" which confirms his original solipsism and generates
much
> > of the substance of his commentary.
> >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
> >
> > Casting Shade as Kinbote's Boswell (or panegyrist): this is an
interesting
> > dimension to Kinbote, the mirror of the commentator dutifully gathering
> and
> > reporting information on his subject; Kinbote wants to gather and report
> his
> > own information as well, and hang it in Shade's mirror. He sees his
role
> as
> > collaborative rather than merely responsive. This all goes to the idea
of
> > synthesis: of poem and commentary into an atomic text. But it also
serves
> a
> > larger process in PF, the act of creating connections and meaning from
the
> > discovered world. As Shade creates meaning through the writing of the
> poem
> > -- a process that structures the entire commentary (to the extent that
> > Kinbote allows it) -- by taking parts of his world and his memory and
> > putting them into verse, so too Kinbote creates meaning for himself by
> > supplying Shade and the hypothetical reader with his own world and
> memories.
> > Zembla too is created as the novel moves along, again for both Shade and
> > reader. John Shade is for Kinbote one more discovered aspect of the
world
> > that can be used in order to create meaning.
> >
> [more]
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
>
> End of pynchon-l-digest V2 #3395
> ********************************
>
> To unsubscribe, send a message to waste@waste.org
> with "unsubscribe pynchon-l-digest" in the message body.