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Fw: Ada,TT and a "burning bar" at the Majestic Hotel
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----- Forwarded message from jansy@aetern.us -----
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 08:04:16 -0300
From: Jansy Berndt de Souza Mello <jansy@aetern.us>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jansy Berndt de Souza Mello" <jansy@aetern.us>
> Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2004 11:17 PM
> Subject: Re: Ada,TT and a "burning bar" at the Majestic Hotel
>
>
> Don,
> After you made that beautiful connection between "immemorial" and "more"
> ( sea in Russian) while I was thinking of " la mer/mère" and couldn´t
listen
> to the "mor/more", I was led to "immer mehr" ( for ever ) and was struck
by
> the similarity of sounds for Meer ( sea ) and mehr ( more ) in German,
> which I
> had not realized before ( actually it is only a "sound" game, itself
> insignificant, or simply a "word dream", like Van´s in Ada, Penguin ed.
> pag.245:
> '... "dor" in the name of an adored river equaled the
> corruption of hydro in "dorophone". Van often had word dreams ' .
> >
>
...........................................................................
> > While I´m now going on with my "Ada in Portuguese" readings, I was able
to
> discover the reference to a hotel named Majestic where Van meets a whore
> ( in a black-velvet picture hat) at a "burning bar". This burning bar
> cannot be but a reference to the burning barn... and in
> Transparent Things we also find a Majestic in Chur where Mr. Kronig (
not
> Krölig ) had worked as a manager. In Ada, the harlot is almost a preview
> of Lucette whom Van meets later with a similar black hat. In TT we also
find
> a harlot that Hugh meets twice ( after an eight year interval, if I´m not
> mistaken).
> Jansy
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Donald B. Johnson" <chtodel@gss.ucsb.edu>
> > To: <NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU>
> > Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2004 9:33 PM
> > Subject: Re: Fwd: TT-23 Russ. "more" & Eng, Immemorial
> >
> >
> > Mary,
> > I´ve been wondering, with Akiko, why did VN name the sea in Russian (
> > "more" ). There is a connection bt. the old German word for "soul" (
> > "Seele"), and its mythological conception from the "sea" ( in German,
> "See",
> > I think ) but could not find my source. I know it came from Bruno
> > Bettelheim´s criticism about careless translations of Freud into
> English.
> > Apparently the souls of the dead arose from lakes and oceans, and this
> would
> > explain the link with See and Seele. And, who knows, with VN´s water
> > voices and even dorophones...
> > I agree with you concerning the feeling that brings up the
> Rumpelstitzschen
> > story (" who can discover my name?") .
> > Immemorial and even Lammerspitz bring up the significant "mère/mer" (
> mother
> > and sea in French ).
> >
> > Spitz and Stein point again to the mountainous Alps.
> > ( I don´ t think VN would be familiar with psychologist Renée Spitz )
> > Jansy
> > ---------------------------------------------------
> > EDCOMMENT. The usual Russian word for "sea" is "more". I suppose VN
> > introduced
> > it as a sonic and sense rhyme with the "mor" in "immemorial." Or perhaps
> > vice
> > versa.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Donald B. Johnson" <chtodel@gss.ucsb.edu>
> > To: <NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU>
> > Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2004 2:18 PM
> > Subject: Re: Fwd: TT-23 Introductory Notes
> >
> >
> > > At 06:33 PM 11/19/04 -0800, you [Akiko] wrote:
> > >
> > > >90.21, 22: Lammerspitz, Rimperstein: La mer (we have just seen the
> > > >"immemorial *more*") + spitz? We will be seeing a spitz in Ch. 26.
Any
> > ideas
> > > >for Rimperstein?
> > >
> > > "Rimperstein" (perhaps especially after "--spitz") brings to my mind t
he
> > > unguessable name "Rumpelstiltzchen" from Grimm's Fairy-Tales, but so
far
> > as
> > > I can find "rimper" is not a German word. It suggests wrinkly and
> rumpled.
> > >
> > > Again, Akiko's notes and others' additions and comments add
tremendously
> > to
> > > my reading of TT.
> > >
> > > Mary Krimmel
> > >
> > > ----- End forwarded message -----
> > >
> > >
> >
> > ----- End forwarded message -----
> >
> >
>
----- End forwarded message -----
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 08:04:16 -0300
From: Jansy Berndt de Souza Mello <jansy@aetern.us>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jansy Berndt de Souza Mello" <jansy@aetern.us>
> Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2004 11:17 PM
> Subject: Re: Ada,TT and a "burning bar" at the Majestic Hotel
>
>
> Don,
> After you made that beautiful connection between "immemorial" and "more"
> ( sea in Russian) while I was thinking of " la mer/mère" and couldn´t
listen
> to the "mor/more", I was led to "immer mehr" ( for ever ) and was struck
by
> the similarity of sounds for Meer ( sea ) and mehr ( more ) in German,
> which I
> had not realized before ( actually it is only a "sound" game, itself
> insignificant, or simply a "word dream", like Van´s in Ada, Penguin ed.
> pag.245:
> '... "dor" in the name of an adored river equaled the
> corruption of hydro in "dorophone". Van often had word dreams ' .
> >
>
...........................................................................
> > While I´m now going on with my "Ada in Portuguese" readings, I was able
to
> discover the reference to a hotel named Majestic where Van meets a whore
> ( in a black-velvet picture hat) at a "burning bar". This burning bar
> cannot be but a reference to the burning barn... and in
> Transparent Things we also find a Majestic in Chur where Mr. Kronig (
not
> Krölig ) had worked as a manager. In Ada, the harlot is almost a preview
> of Lucette whom Van meets later with a similar black hat. In TT we also
find
> a harlot that Hugh meets twice ( after an eight year interval, if I´m not
> mistaken).
> Jansy
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Donald B. Johnson" <chtodel@gss.ucsb.edu>
> > To: <NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU>
> > Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2004 9:33 PM
> > Subject: Re: Fwd: TT-23 Russ. "more" & Eng, Immemorial
> >
> >
> > Mary,
> > I´ve been wondering, with Akiko, why did VN name the sea in Russian (
> > "more" ). There is a connection bt. the old German word for "soul" (
> > "Seele"), and its mythological conception from the "sea" ( in German,
> "See",
> > I think ) but could not find my source. I know it came from Bruno
> > Bettelheim´s criticism about careless translations of Freud into
> English.
> > Apparently the souls of the dead arose from lakes and oceans, and this
> would
> > explain the link with See and Seele. And, who knows, with VN´s water
> > voices and even dorophones...
> > I agree with you concerning the feeling that brings up the
> Rumpelstitzschen
> > story (" who can discover my name?") .
> > Immemorial and even Lammerspitz bring up the significant "mère/mer" (
> mother
> > and sea in French ).
> >
> > Spitz and Stein point again to the mountainous Alps.
> > ( I don´ t think VN would be familiar with psychologist Renée Spitz )
> > Jansy
> > ---------------------------------------------------
> > EDCOMMENT. The usual Russian word for "sea" is "more". I suppose VN
> > introduced
> > it as a sonic and sense rhyme with the "mor" in "immemorial." Or perhaps
> > vice
> > versa.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Donald B. Johnson" <chtodel@gss.ucsb.edu>
> > To: <NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU>
> > Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2004 2:18 PM
> > Subject: Re: Fwd: TT-23 Introductory Notes
> >
> >
> > > At 06:33 PM 11/19/04 -0800, you [Akiko] wrote:
> > >
> > > >90.21, 22: Lammerspitz, Rimperstein: La mer (we have just seen the
> > > >"immemorial *more*") + spitz? We will be seeing a spitz in Ch. 26.
Any
> > ideas
> > > >for Rimperstein?
> > >
> > > "Rimperstein" (perhaps especially after "--spitz") brings to my mind t
he
> > > unguessable name "Rumpelstiltzchen" from Grimm's Fairy-Tales, but so
far
> > as
> > > I can find "rimper" is not a German word. It suggests wrinkly and
> rumpled.
> > >
> > > Again, Akiko's notes and others' additions and comments add
tremendously
> > to
> > > my reading of TT.
> > >
> > > Mary Krimmel
> > >
> > > ----- End forwarded message -----
> > >
> > >
> >
> > ----- End forwarded message -----
> >
> >
>
----- End forwarded message -----