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R: [NABOKV-L] CHW to SKB
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Charles writes: 'I cannot think of a single instance of Will being used in the willie sense pre the naughty seaside postcards of late Victorian England'
Odd remark. Will was standard Elizabethan slang not only for penis but also for vagina, and both senses are played on in the sonnet.
"This night he fleshes his will in the spoil of her honour' All's Well that Ends Well, Act 4, Sc.3, (The First Lord).
All commentators note or recognize this.To cite just a handful: Stephen Booth (1977) pp.466f.;Helen Vendler (1997 on no.136) p.574-5; Colin Burrow (2002) p.650.
Also Joel Fineman, Shakespeare's Perjured Eye' (1986) p.293
Peter Dale
----- Original Message -----
From: Chaswe@AOL.COM
To: NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU
Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 8:03 PM
Subject: Re: [NABOKV-L] CHW to SKB
In a message dated 09/11/2006 17:51:58 GMT Standard Time, skb@BOOTLE.BIZ writes:
Rowse cited the so-called ‘Will sonnet’ where the bard writes that his lover (Emilia) “ ... hath Will ... and Will in overplus” meaning she was, to use a Scouse idiom, as happy as a dog with two dicks.
Jansy subsequently asked if ‘Will as penis’ could be connected with the slang ‘Willie?’ It’s plausible but more likely just one of those coincidences that confound the etymologists. As I mentioned earlier, almost ANY noun can emerge euphemistically as the ‘one-eyed snake!”
Rowse was a prominent and idiosyncratic academic, but at least one of his feet was made of clay. I very seriously doubt that Shakespeare intended a treble-entendre of this nature when writing his sonnet, and was simply saying that Emilia had two lovers called William, and perhaps also that where there's a will, or two wills, there's a way. Don't tell me that "way" is another Elizabethan bit of Anglo-Latin bawdy. I cannot think of a single instance of Will being used in the willie sense pre the naughty seaside postcards of late Victorian England. But I can't find my Partridge, and I haven't looked in the OED.
As for shag, I can no more believe that VN would employ, or invest with meaning, cheap English slang of this kind than that he would ever use an American word as ugly as blooper.
Agree that almost any noun can acquire a submerged significance. "Johnson" surprised me as much as it puzzled the Dude, and I wonder how the Doctor might have reacted.
Frankly, I cannot think of any instance at all of what would conventionally be called smuttiness in any work written by Vladimir Nabokov. I just don't think his mind worked like that, but perhaps, as usual, someone can correct me. Joyce, possibly; VN, no.
All best,
Charles
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Odd remark. Will was standard Elizabethan slang not only for penis but also for vagina, and both senses are played on in the sonnet.
"This night he fleshes his will in the spoil of her honour' All's Well that Ends Well, Act 4, Sc.3, (The First Lord).
All commentators note or recognize this.To cite just a handful: Stephen Booth (1977) pp.466f.;Helen Vendler (1997 on no.136) p.574-5; Colin Burrow (2002) p.650.
Also Joel Fineman, Shakespeare's Perjured Eye' (1986) p.293
Peter Dale
----- Original Message -----
From: Chaswe@AOL.COM
To: NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU
Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 8:03 PM
Subject: Re: [NABOKV-L] CHW to SKB
In a message dated 09/11/2006 17:51:58 GMT Standard Time, skb@BOOTLE.BIZ writes:
Rowse cited the so-called ‘Will sonnet’ where the bard writes that his lover (Emilia) “ ... hath Will ... and Will in overplus” meaning she was, to use a Scouse idiom, as happy as a dog with two dicks.
Jansy subsequently asked if ‘Will as penis’ could be connected with the slang ‘Willie?’ It’s plausible but more likely just one of those coincidences that confound the etymologists. As I mentioned earlier, almost ANY noun can emerge euphemistically as the ‘one-eyed snake!”
Rowse was a prominent and idiosyncratic academic, but at least one of his feet was made of clay. I very seriously doubt that Shakespeare intended a treble-entendre of this nature when writing his sonnet, and was simply saying that Emilia had two lovers called William, and perhaps also that where there's a will, or two wills, there's a way. Don't tell me that "way" is another Elizabethan bit of Anglo-Latin bawdy. I cannot think of a single instance of Will being used in the willie sense pre the naughty seaside postcards of late Victorian England. But I can't find my Partridge, and I haven't looked in the OED.
As for shag, I can no more believe that VN would employ, or invest with meaning, cheap English slang of this kind than that he would ever use an American word as ugly as blooper.
Agree that almost any noun can acquire a submerged significance. "Johnson" surprised me as much as it puzzled the Dude, and I wonder how the Doctor might have reacted.
Frankly, I cannot think of any instance at all of what would conventionally be called smuttiness in any work written by Vladimir Nabokov. I just don't think his mind worked like that, but perhaps, as usual, someone can correct me. Joyce, possibly; VN, no.
All best,
Charles
Search the Nabokv-L archive at UCSB
Contact the Editors
All private editorial communications, without exception, are read by both co-editors.
Visit Zembla
View Nabokv-L Policies
Search the archive: http://listserv.ucsb.edu/archives/nabokv-l.html
Contact the Editors: mailto:nabokv-l@utk.edu,nabokv-l@holycross.edu
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View Nabokv-L policies: http://web.utk.edu/~sblackwe/EDNote.htm