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Re: THOUGHTS: Laurence Hochard on Matt Roth's incest theory
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It¹s quite tricky judging the harshness of ³we sent her² viewed in cold
print. I can ³hear² different nuances if the phrase cropped up in everyday
family banter. ³What are your kids doing this summer?² ³Oh we¹ve SENT them
[off] to France!² ³LUCKY them!² Alternatives might be ³we¹ve BUNDLED them
off² or ³we¹ve PACKED them off² The idioms are more friendly than the
literal meanings.
Re-the debate over sex and the ³ugly² daughter: let¹s admit what¹s been
commonly observed in teenage college life. The homely gal ³gives out² as
they say. In Liverpool we add ³Who looks at the mantlepiece while poking the
fire?² And diverse dude Blues singers tell us ³Make¹s no difference when the
sun go down.²
No, I haven¹t advanced Pale Fire scholarship! Sorry. But, was inspired last
night re-re-reading The Real Life of Sebastian Knight suddenly OF COURSE
my all-time FAVOURITE!! The narrator V. describes IMAGINATION as the MUSCLE
of the MIND. That¹s a wonderful quote apparently supported by current
Cognitive Science studies. Thanks to the N-list moderators for providing the
GYMNASIUM where we can ³work out² on those mental biceps
Stan Kelly-Bootle
On 22/07/2008 18:08, "Nabokv-L" <nabokv-l@UTK.EDU> wrote:
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Laurence Hochard on Matt Roth's incest theory
> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 07:05:12 -0700
> From: Laurence Hochard <laurence.hochard@HOTMAIL.FR>
> <mailto:laurence.hochard@HOTMAIL.FR>
> To: NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU
>
> M Roth: John and Sybil "sent her, though, to a chateau in France" (line
> 336). The verb phrase here ("we sent her") seems a bit harsh, no?
>
> L Hochard: Yes it does! And there are other short unnoticed (as far as I
> know, and I must admit I don't know much, so I apologize if I'm merely
> repeating what everybody already knows) passages in the poem that do sound
> harsh toward Hazel, such as line 322 where Sybil says:" She wants to look
> a mess", quite a surprisingly violently derogatory phrase in a speech where
> she otherwise seems to defend Hazel and reproach John with "overstress(ing)
> the physical".
> There's also this passage in Kinbote's note to line 230 (a domestic
> ghost): "Sybil had had the animal (Aunt Maud's half-paralized Skye terrier)
> destroyed soon after its mistress's hospitalization, incurring the wrath of
> Hazel who was beside herself with distress." The least we can say is that
> it was inconsiderate of her; she seems, at times, to be quite impervious
> to her child's distress. I would compare her attitude to Ada's toward
> Lucette.
> And of course there's the scene of THE HAUNTED BARN, (in Kinbote's
> note to line 347: old barn) where Sybil coldly makes fun of her daughter.
> I'm well aware that Kinbote reconstructed the scene and we know that he is
> not well-disposed toward Sybil; but this isn't the whole story since we
> have those hints in Shade's poem that cause the reader to feel half-
> consciously a budding uneasiness with regard to Sybil's and Hazel's
> relationship that Kinbote's commentary only reveals and emphazises.
> The mention of "those / almost unruffled evenings", a few lines
> after "She'd criticize / Ferociously our projects" also seem to hint at a
> not entirely harmonious family atmosphere.
> And Finally, the very title of the film (Remorse) Sybil selects on
> the night of Hazel's suicide can't have been chosen at random; VN means, I
> think, that someone is feeling remorse for what is about to take place.
>
> MRoth: All in all, it seems at least plausible, at most likely,& nbsp;that
> Hazel and Disa were both sent/banished to France in the same year. If so,
> then this would seem to be another example of Hazel doubling Sybil's role
> (if Sybil=Disa), as she has with the atalanta and mockingbird.
>
> LH: I agree that Hazel was sort of "banished" to France, as was Bel when
> Vadim married Louise (LATH) and possibly for the same reasons: Bel and
> Louise didn't get along well, neither did Sybil and Hazel, if my reading is
> correct. If so, I can't agree with you that this is an example of Hazel
> doubling Sybil's role. Besides, I have strong doubts that there really is
> any Sybil / Hazel equivalence. But I must wait till I've read BB's "The
> Magic of Artistic Discovery" (I've just ordered it) before I can really
> make up my mind.
> However that may be, I must thank you for your precise comments as
> they really help to clarify my misty musings about VN's novels and since I
> started taking part in this list, my mind has been positively swarming with
> new ideas about VN's writings !!!
>
> MR: I believe that, far from destroying the coherence of the novel, an
> incest narrative in PF perfectly highlights several of the main
> threads ............. rhyme is left open, unfinished, cut short like
> Hazel's life.
>
> LH: It seems to me that if there was an actual incestuous relation between
> Hazel and her father, there would be some hint,however tenuous, in the poem
> as well as in the commentary; as there is, for instance, in LATH, so that
> the reader may know even if the narrator denies it. The incestuous relation
> you're talking about seems to be more on a symbolical plane (the literary
> incest between text and commentary) than a (fictive) "reality".
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print. I can ³hear² different nuances if the phrase cropped up in everyday
family banter. ³What are your kids doing this summer?² ³Oh we¹ve SENT them
[off] to France!² ³LUCKY them!² Alternatives might be ³we¹ve BUNDLED them
off² or ³we¹ve PACKED them off² The idioms are more friendly than the
literal meanings.
Re-the debate over sex and the ³ugly² daughter: let¹s admit what¹s been
commonly observed in teenage college life. The homely gal ³gives out² as
they say. In Liverpool we add ³Who looks at the mantlepiece while poking the
fire?² And diverse dude Blues singers tell us ³Make¹s no difference when the
sun go down.²
No, I haven¹t advanced Pale Fire scholarship! Sorry. But, was inspired last
night re-re-reading The Real Life of Sebastian Knight suddenly OF COURSE
my all-time FAVOURITE!! The narrator V. describes IMAGINATION as the MUSCLE
of the MIND. That¹s a wonderful quote apparently supported by current
Cognitive Science studies. Thanks to the N-list moderators for providing the
GYMNASIUM where we can ³work out² on those mental biceps
Stan Kelly-Bootle
On 22/07/2008 18:08, "Nabokv-L" <nabokv-l@UTK.EDU> wrote:
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Laurence Hochard on Matt Roth's incest theory
> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 07:05:12 -0700
> From: Laurence Hochard <laurence.hochard@HOTMAIL.FR>
> <mailto:laurence.hochard@HOTMAIL.FR>
> To: NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU
>
> M Roth: John and Sybil "sent her, though, to a chateau in France" (line
> 336). The verb phrase here ("we sent her") seems a bit harsh, no?
>
> L Hochard: Yes it does! And there are other short unnoticed (as far as I
> know, and I must admit I don't know much, so I apologize if I'm merely
> repeating what everybody already knows) passages in the poem that do sound
> harsh toward Hazel, such as line 322 where Sybil says:" She wants to look
> a mess", quite a surprisingly violently derogatory phrase in a speech where
> she otherwise seems to defend Hazel and reproach John with "overstress(ing)
> the physical".
> There's also this passage in Kinbote's note to line 230 (a domestic
> ghost): "Sybil had had the animal (Aunt Maud's half-paralized Skye terrier)
> destroyed soon after its mistress's hospitalization, incurring the wrath of
> Hazel who was beside herself with distress." The least we can say is that
> it was inconsiderate of her; she seems, at times, to be quite impervious
> to her child's distress. I would compare her attitude to Ada's toward
> Lucette.
> And of course there's the scene of THE HAUNTED BARN, (in Kinbote's
> note to line 347: old barn) where Sybil coldly makes fun of her daughter.
> I'm well aware that Kinbote reconstructed the scene and we know that he is
> not well-disposed toward Sybil; but this isn't the whole story since we
> have those hints in Shade's poem that cause the reader to feel half-
> consciously a budding uneasiness with regard to Sybil's and Hazel's
> relationship that Kinbote's commentary only reveals and emphazises.
> The mention of "those / almost unruffled evenings", a few lines
> after "She'd criticize / Ferociously our projects" also seem to hint at a
> not entirely harmonious family atmosphere.
> And Finally, the very title of the film (Remorse) Sybil selects on
> the night of Hazel's suicide can't have been chosen at random; VN means, I
> think, that someone is feeling remorse for what is about to take place.
>
> MRoth: All in all, it seems at least plausible, at most likely,& nbsp;that
> Hazel and Disa were both sent/banished to France in the same year. If so,
> then this would seem to be another example of Hazel doubling Sybil's role
> (if Sybil=Disa), as she has with the atalanta and mockingbird.
>
> LH: I agree that Hazel was sort of "banished" to France, as was Bel when
> Vadim married Louise (LATH) and possibly for the same reasons: Bel and
> Louise didn't get along well, neither did Sybil and Hazel, if my reading is
> correct. If so, I can't agree with you that this is an example of Hazel
> doubling Sybil's role. Besides, I have strong doubts that there really is
> any Sybil / Hazel equivalence. But I must wait till I've read BB's "The
> Magic of Artistic Discovery" (I've just ordered it) before I can really
> make up my mind.
> However that may be, I must thank you for your precise comments as
> they really help to clarify my misty musings about VN's novels and since I
> started taking part in this list, my mind has been positively swarming with
> new ideas about VN's writings !!!
>
> MR: I believe that, far from destroying the coherence of the novel, an
> incest narrative in PF perfectly highlights several of the main
> threads ............. rhyme is left open, unfinished, cut short like
> Hazel's life.
>
> LH: It seems to me that if there was an actual incestuous relation between
> Hazel and her father, there would be some hint,however tenuous, in the poem
> as well as in the commentary; as there is, for instance, in LATH, so that
> the reader may know even if the narrator denies it. The incestuous relation
> you're talking about seems to be more on a symbolical plane (the literary
> incest between text and commentary) than a (fictive) "reality".
Search archive with Google:
http://www.google.com/advanced_search?q=site:listserv.ucsb.edu&HL=en
Contact the Editors: mailto:nabokv-l@utk.edu,nabokv-l@holycross.edu
Visit Zembla: http://www.libraries.psu.edu/nabokov/zembla.htm
View Nabokv-L policies: http://web.utk.edu/~sblackwe/EDNote.htm
Visit "Nabokov Online Journal:" http://www.nabokovonline.com
Manage subscription options: http://listserv.ucsb.edu/