Subject
Re: de fencing lessons]
From
Date
Body
JM: pretty ³pair o¹ ducks² is a well-worn verbal trick. Spoken quickly it
comes out as the Gilbert & Sullivan ³pretty paradox.²
Can we clarify this thanatos (classical and modern Greek for death¹)
affair? When written Thanatos, it is usually taken as a personification. In
English we employ a similar trick using initial Upper Case: ³O Death be not
proud ... ³ compared with ³Freud¹s death came as a great shock.² (Note that
I used the ³O² to stress the personification, and also to remove the
ambiguity caused by our convention of capitalizing the first letter when
starting a sentence. If you read ³Death came quickly ...² it does not
necessarily imply personification.) It¹s a typical step for the personified
entity to become deified (or maybe semi-demi-deified!). Thus the Greek
Thanatos becomes identified as something more like the god or spirit of
Death. The Roman mors/Mors conveys the same deification. Compare also
eros=desire/Eros=god of love.
If any English texts (Freudian or otherwise) include the words death¹ or
Death,¹ the modern Greek translator is likely to use thanatos¹ or
Thanatos.¹ BUT according to my big Collins, Freud borrowed the Greek
Thanatos as a technical term for a ³universal death instinct.² How do Greek
translators cope with this?
skb
On 27/03/2009 04:16, "jansymello" <jansy@AETERN.US> wrote:
> SK-B ( to Jansy): PS to my "sans" sermon: As kids we sang...There is a green
> hill far away, without a city wall/ Where our dear Lord was crucified, he died
> to save us all.Can you spot the parsing challenge?... This "without" is NOT a
> "sans." [...] You say Freud never used the word Thanatos in his works. But, it
> does appear often in the Greek translations of his vast corpus. A pretty
> pair-o'-ducks ;=)"
>
>
>
> JM: Barmen and Carmen and hell's belles and balls: one-two (sans three)...
> seven postings in all!
> And good for you, Stan. You are absolutely right, the word Thanatus must needs
> shine without in any future Greek translation of the freudian vast corpus*
>
> I had to google "a pretty pair of ducks", though - and here's what I found: "A
> pair of ducks, which stand for both a premiere ranking, and happiness in
> marriage because ducks mate for life, portrayed in mother of pearl..."
> A "muderperl"!!! So you did imply a pair of iridulean geese**?
> Are you keeping intact your nephelibacy or still nubile in "blue inenubilable
> Zembla? (See, SB, how one can worm in Kinbote? And Zembla, of course.)
>
>
> * btw: Speaking of incorporation, Kinbote, in a preterist mood, thought he'd
> found an incorporated Zemblan counterpart of the Elder Edda (line 79): "The
> wise at nightfall praise the day,/ The wife when she has passed away,/ The ice
> when it is crossed, the bride/ When tumbled, and the horse when tried."
> Unfortunately I couldn't find the missing link in note and quote.
>
> ** - Iridule: "an iridescent cloudlet, Zemblan muderperlwelk"
>
Search archive with Google:
http://www.google.com/advanced_search?q=site:listserv.ucsb.edu&HL=en
Contact the Editors: mailto:nabokv-l@utk.edu,nabokv-l@holycross.edu
Visit Zembla: http://www.libraries.psu.edu/nabokov/zembla.htm
View Nabokv-L policies: http://web.utk.edu/~sblackwe/EDNote.htm
Visit "Nabokov Online Journal:" http://www.nabokovonline.com
Manage subscription options: http://listserv.ucsb.edu/
comes out as the Gilbert & Sullivan ³pretty paradox.²
Can we clarify this thanatos (classical and modern Greek for death¹)
affair? When written Thanatos, it is usually taken as a personification. In
English we employ a similar trick using initial Upper Case: ³O Death be not
proud ... ³ compared with ³Freud¹s death came as a great shock.² (Note that
I used the ³O² to stress the personification, and also to remove the
ambiguity caused by our convention of capitalizing the first letter when
starting a sentence. If you read ³Death came quickly ...² it does not
necessarily imply personification.) It¹s a typical step for the personified
entity to become deified (or maybe semi-demi-deified!). Thus the Greek
Thanatos becomes identified as something more like the god or spirit of
Death. The Roman mors/Mors conveys the same deification. Compare also
eros=desire/Eros=god of love.
If any English texts (Freudian or otherwise) include the words death¹ or
Death,¹ the modern Greek translator is likely to use thanatos¹ or
Thanatos.¹ BUT according to my big Collins, Freud borrowed the Greek
Thanatos as a technical term for a ³universal death instinct.² How do Greek
translators cope with this?
skb
On 27/03/2009 04:16, "jansymello" <jansy@AETERN.US> wrote:
> SK-B ( to Jansy): PS to my "sans" sermon: As kids we sang...There is a green
> hill far away, without a city wall/ Where our dear Lord was crucified, he died
> to save us all.Can you spot the parsing challenge?... This "without" is NOT a
> "sans." [...] You say Freud never used the word Thanatos in his works. But, it
> does appear often in the Greek translations of his vast corpus. A pretty
> pair-o'-ducks ;=)"
>
>
>
> JM: Barmen and Carmen and hell's belles and balls: one-two (sans three)...
> seven postings in all!
> And good for you, Stan. You are absolutely right, the word Thanatus must needs
> shine without in any future Greek translation of the freudian vast corpus*
>
> I had to google "a pretty pair of ducks", though - and here's what I found: "A
> pair of ducks, which stand for both a premiere ranking, and happiness in
> marriage because ducks mate for life, portrayed in mother of pearl..."
> A "muderperl"!!! So you did imply a pair of iridulean geese**?
> Are you keeping intact your nephelibacy or still nubile in "blue inenubilable
> Zembla? (See, SB, how one can worm in Kinbote? And Zembla, of course.)
>
>
> * btw: Speaking of incorporation, Kinbote, in a preterist mood, thought he'd
> found an incorporated Zemblan counterpart of the Elder Edda (line 79): "The
> wise at nightfall praise the day,/ The wife when she has passed away,/ The ice
> when it is crossed, the bride/ When tumbled, and the horse when tried."
> Unfortunately I couldn't find the missing link in note and quote.
>
> ** - Iridule: "an iridescent cloudlet, Zemblan muderperlwelk"
>
Search archive with Google:
http://www.google.com/advanced_search?q=site:listserv.ucsb.edu&HL=en
Contact the Editors: mailto:nabokv-l@utk.edu,nabokv-l@holycross.edu
Visit Zembla: http://www.libraries.psu.edu/nabokov/zembla.htm
View Nabokv-L policies: http://web.utk.edu/~sblackwe/EDNote.htm
Visit "Nabokov Online Journal:" http://www.nabokovonline.com
Manage subscription options: http://listserv.ucsb.edu/