A.Antonoff:: "...although it's true that Kinbote couldn't have known about the 'four thousand times' on the morning when he allegedly smiled indulgently, he could have nevertheless smiled indulgently at the Shades' creasing the old pillow again after having just creased it a mere two nights before even if he didn't know they'd hit the four thousand mark."

I hope List-participants can bear with me a little longer. The 16-years issue got to my head. If not, please jump the rest of this posting!

I want to accept (my prejudice) all the facts laid out by Kinbote and therefore, I need to find a way to make them all fit. And my arythmetics are poor.

The "dead center" of the year and the birth of the poem lies at "a few minutes after midnight July 1" in New Wye and "at 0:05, July 2, 1959" As I see it, the difference of 16-years exists indeed, but for approximately 24 hours only. It's when Shade is still 60 and CK turns 44, namely, some time in July 4.in New Wye, and already July 5 in Onhava.

A hitch: Charles Kinbote reveals the 16-year difference in age to Sybil in the afternoon of July 5, when it's no longer valid (JS is now 61 and CK couldn't have know the exact minute JS was born to make his observation fit exactly into the time interval) I hope I'm not being terribly lost and wrong again here. It's a fascinating idea because this kind of truth, in PF, would be so transient.

W.R.Bion once said that a liar must have a pretty clear idea about the truth in order not to stumble into it by accident I don't think Kinbote was a liar (only a fabulist) but VN played with this hypothesis. .