On 21/1/07 02:40, "jansymello" <jansy@AETERN.US> wrote:
Perhaps this story can never be ascertained by concrete facts ( once the Church keeps its holy secrets under lock and key) but, for me, it is enough that there is a word that describes this "testimonial" ( "testes" plus "manus"). It is sufficient proof for me, with or without John or Joan
Jansy: here’s YET another potential etymological trap. Which ‘came first’ -- testis as ‘witness, spectator’ or testis as ‘testicle.’ ALAS, the common myth is to assume that ‘testify’ and ‘testimonial’ originate from various reported Biblical and MIS-reported Roman customs of ‘swearing on the testicles’ (e.g., grabbing your balls [or the King’s balls!!] while making an oath.) The best evidence is that testis as ‘witness’ came first, from much earlier Indo-European roots for the NUMBER THREE. The third witness, as it were, was outside the dispute and could testify/bear witness objectively.
The shift to testis as ‘male gonad’ is later and metonymic: the balls being a ‘witness’ to male virility (not to mention female virility, as in “Maggie Thatcher has balls!”) In fact, there’s no evidence that the Romans handled their own or other’s balls as a sign during oath-taking or giving evidence. It’s typically inventive folk-etymology that REVERSES the connection — from ‘testicle’ to ‘testify’ rather than from ‘testify’ to ‘testicle!’ No real harm, like.
Even the Hebrew Bible’s references have people swearing on the leader’s genitals, not their own. (Ruler James coyly says ‘Put, I pray thee, thy hand under my THIGH!” Gen 24:2 [yarek, a Hebrew euphemism for the English euphemism: ‘the generative parts.’ Interestingly shaba the Hebrew for ‘swear [an oath]’ also has a numerical connotation. Literally, you SEVEN the oath, as though you had repeated it seven times.).
A final quirk (language moves in mysterious ways!) is that ‘testicle’ is quite an INSULT, coming from the Latin DIMINUTIVE testiculus — whence 14th century ‘testicules,’ later ‘testicles’ losing the sense of TINY BALLS. Doctors still prefer the full-sized ‘testes!’ Don’t we all?
PS: Your "testimonial" ( "testes" plus "manus") is stretching the second root rather! The ‘-mony’ and ‘-monial’ ending have no convincing connection with mAnus (‘hand’) -- more to do with mOn- roots as in monitus pp of monere ‘to warn, advise, presage’
Stan Kelly-Bootle